SOFIA COPPOLA: Hi Kirsten.

KIRSTEN DUNST: Hi, hi, hi.

Okay. Are you in the middle of doing tonnes of promo for 'Civil War'?

Yes, but it's been good. I had a lot of nerves for the movie to come out, because you never know what people will think. But everybody seems to like it, so that's good.

I'm so excited to see the movie. I want to see it in IMAX. I want to find something for us to do, too.

I would love that.

I'm on the lookout. I'm looking at books and things. There are things that I love, but unless it connects in some deep way with you too, it's hard to totally invest in it. It can be very rare that you connect with something in a deep way. What were the criteria for working on this movie ['Civil War']? Did you just like the story?

I hadn't worked since 'Power of the Dog', then I had a baby. It was like 'Power of the Dog', got pregnant, had [my son] James, and then went to work on 'Civil War'. He turned one on 'Civil War'.

He was such a baby when you were filming, and it was an intense shoot.

It was a very intense shoot. Especially the end. It was so loud. There was gunfire and bombs and full rounds, as opposed to half rounds. Normal movies, they do half rounds of blanks, but we did full rounds.

That's intense. So it's not like they just added all that in post-production.

A lot was added in post—all the visual effects of really big things. But it was [still] very immersive. The way he [Alex Garland] shot it, the set pieces they built. We had like real Navy Seals. We had real soldiers and stunt guys choreographing massive fight scenes.

Have you ever done an action movie?

Not like that. I did 'Spider-Man, but I'm just screaming [in that film]. What’s cool about this movie [is] that it's a female lead who's good at her job. It's not glamorous; it's not damsel-in-distress stuff. It feels like a big movie, but it's about a woman who’s a war photojournalist. It's kind of nice that it's a big movie about that.

It's cool that you're at the core of it and not just some dudes. You get to do something different for you, too.

I really loved Alex’s previous film, 'Ex Machina', and I had read other scripts that he had written, like 'Never Let Me Go', which was such a good script. And he wrote the novel 'The Beach'. I’d wanted to work with him for a while.

Does [co-star] Cailee [Spaeny, star of Coppola’s Priscilla] play a journalist?

Yes, but a novice. I'm the old hat. She's the novice that squeezes her way into our car on our drive from New York to Washington, D.C. She hitches a ride with us, to my character’s chagrin.

[laughs] I can imagine the dynamic.

It's like mentor-mentee kind of thing.

In real life, Cailee is starting her career, and I ended up working with her because of you. I was glad that I could ask you about her because I didn't know anything about her. I just had a coffee with her, but it was sort of like blind faith. When you said that you liked working with her, that you thought she was talented, I know that you don't toss compliments around unless you mean it. You're no BS, which I appreciate.

I loved working with her. We operated very similarly with acting. It just felt very natural, and I know you like a naturalistic [style], coming from a real place. I felt she was very vulnerable and present with me when we worked together.

That's so cool. What do you do if you're working with an actor who is working in a different style?

It's so hard. I have to make up sometimes that I'm acting with somebody else.

Does that ever happen, where someone feels really artificial? That they’re just acting, and you can't connect emotionally with them, and you just have to invent something?

Yeah. I worked with an actor—obviously, I'm not gonna say who—but in the scene, they would just repeat the same lines in different ways. ‘Lemme try it this way. Lemme try it that way. Lemme try...’. I was like, ‘oh my God. You're missing the whole point of why this is even, like, fulfilling.’ It was very weird to me.

What do you do in that situation?

I just have to get over it or use it somehow. Or throw them a line, or change things up to make them kind of –

To throw them off.

Yeah. To make them be real, to react naturally. I gotta figure out a way to do it for myself or something higher. The book 'Franny and Zooey' really stuck with me because of this one line in it about acting for God.

I don't remember that. But I always loved that book. I haven't read it since I was a kid.

I know. I haven't read it since I was like a teenager or maybe early twenties. But acting for God takes all the pressure off whatever you're doing in that moment, and it frees you to give it to a higher thing than yourself.

Anything you do that's good is you just connecting to something that you're not really in control of. I remember an actor once saying that he had a co-star that he wasn't getting along with, and he pretended it was his crush when he was in third grade or something. And in the movie, he's so lovable.

This film sees you working with your husband, Jesse, in a pivotal scene. How has that working partnership evolved over time? I remember when you first introduced us to Jesse, I could tell you had so much respect and admiration for him as an actor. It must be fun to work together.

It's my favourite thing to do, really. That's how we first connected—through work. There was just a soul connection immediately between us. I can picture it right now, and you don't always have those moments saved in your head, but I remember that first meeting. Just looking into his eyes. We met at the airport going to Calgary to shoot ['Fargo']. And you have to get your visa, and I knew after the plane to rush there because there's always long lines. So, I booked it, and I could tell he was at the back of the line. I was like, ‘come on’. I had him come be with me to get his visa. [laughs]

That's when you first met?

Well, we first met at LAX.

Do you remember the first look?

I remember the first look, but also, I had quit smoking cigarettes, and he had just bought a carton of American Spirits. I think the first thing I said to him was like, ‘Fuck, you smoke my cigarettes, and I just quit.’ I knew we were gonna be working together, and it's like–

– torture. That's so cute.

I think that was the first thing I said to him.

Oh, the kids are home! I might change locations. Hi Ellis. James and his best friend Ellis just came home.

Are they there?

They're here. Come say hi to Sofia, James. And Ellis if you want. James is obsessed with Spider-Man.

Does he know that you're a character? Has he seen you in 'Spider-Man'?

He has, but he doesn't care at all. He's just like, whatever. It's all about Spider-Man to him. [laughs]

Okay, I'm gonna take us into the bedroom.

Alright. And I'll try to think of professional things to ask you [laugh].

What do you feel and remember about 'Marie Antoinette', the premier at Cannes? Looking back so many years later, how do you feel about the way the film has been celebrated? I remember us going to Cannes, so proud that we made this movie. We were so excited to be there and show it. Then, just everyone panned us [laughs]. But we had a really fun party.

We had one of the best parties I've ever been to in Cannes.

It's fun that they're now saying it’s a cult classic. It's nice that it's still around.

I mean, I met a guy at the Academy Museum who had a tattoo of me as Antoinette on his arm. It was just not for that age of critics; you know what I mean? Whoever these old people reviewing were, they were not the audience. It's like the team—the people that were your age, my age at the time. They were watching it. They're just not in the jobs where they review movies.

Yeah, totally. I know. They need to have a teen panel. Oh, I guess that's what TikTok is. [laughs]

Right. They should have one review by the person whose age the movie actually is for.

True. Just in general, they should have some teen girls on the panels. Yes. I feel like so much of what we do, young women connect with. But that's not the culture of the industry, or what's considered a serious movie, or whatever.

Well, not by a female director, you know? Yeah. I feel like you were making movies when it was—is—such a boy’s club. They didn't wanna give us any credit. They really didn't.

I met so many young girls and boys where those movies meant so much [to them]. It was really touching. Now, this new generation still loves it, and there's a new generation of kids that connect to them.

I feel like you're the most non-bullshit person I know. How have you been around in Hollywood for so long and not become bitter? I feel like you always just stick to what you want to do. I'm sure there's so many opinions of what you should be doing.

It gets hard. But I always went to normal schools. I had my best friend Molly, who is also a very dry humour, zero bullshit woman. That's who I grew up with. I always had my spot at the lunch table at school because of my friends. I never felt isolated because I was doing what I was doing. I was more embarrassed by it, to be honest. Like, I didn't want to go to the mall and be recognised with my girlfriends. To me, it was embarrassing. I never thought of it as, ‘I'm a movie star’. ‘I'm an actor.’ ‘I'm famous’. I was like, ‘I'm mortified that I'm famous, but I love what I do.’ [laughs]

I didn't realise that. It makes such a difference to go to a normal school and that you weren't just homeschooled and in that Hollywood world all the time.

It was important to me to have a normal life. You go on school trips. I had really good girlfriends.

Do you remember our first meeting?

Four Seasons Toronto.

I know. I totally remember. You were with your mom.

But then, did we sit alone and talk? Yeah, we did, didn't we? She wasn't sitting with us, was she?

I just remember us meeting there. Maybe she was there, dropping you off. I vaguely remember us meeting at the bar, and then I remember us being on set and what a fun shoot that was.

I'd never been on a set like that, where we had just a week or so. Oh my. Just hanging out at the house, making sandwiches, and feeling like a family.

Yeah. That was fun. Were you worried that it was my first movie, and I didn't know what I was doing?

Not at all.

That was a fun shoot. It was a nice group of kids. I felt like everyone was so gung-ho. After working with someone who wasn't as gung-ho, I've always felt about you that you would do anything. If I was like, ‘can you climb up that tree?’ You would be like, ‘okay, when, where?’ I realised that not everyone is like that. I appreciate that.

I trust you. I wouldn't do that for just anybody. But when you are working with someone [and] you believe in their story and what they want to make, my job is to facilitate the purest version of whatever that is. That's why I'm also very picky. I really give my heart to what I'm doing. It's not like I'm doing this because I just want to work. I've been doing this so long that I think I deserve the time in between to choose carefully. That makes you have a sustainable career too.

I admire that you're so selective and that you wouldn't do something that would be embarrassing. It makes sense. You have to put your heart into it. I feel the same way too. You can't put your heart into something if you don't believe in it.

Now I'm more into developing things that I want to see.

That's smart because you can't wait for things to come to you that you're interested in. Is there a kind of character or a part that you've always wanted to play that you never have? Like a villain or a real hard bitch character?

That would be fun. I mean, I did in 'Bachelorette'. I was very bitchy in that movie. I would like to play a villain. That'd be fun. I want to do a dark comedy again too.

How do you feel looking back at some of your earliest roles, like 'Interview with a Vampire' and 'Little Women'? How old were you? Were you a baby in commercials? How did you become an actress?

I was a Ford model. I did runways and print work.

Really? Yeah. I mean, I knew you were a model, but I love that you were doing runway. [laughs]

Yeah, at like five and six. Donna Karan and Betsey Johnson. We were in New Jersey, and we'd drive in. I was first just a little child model, and then they were like, ‘You should try commercials, Kirsten.’ I see my son James, and I'm like, oh, I get it. Like, he's such a good actor, and he's three. I'm like, ‘I see it in you.’ He's such a performer. If I was a stage mother, he'd be booking everything right now. Ennis is more cerebral. And God, he likes things the way he likes them. He is very particular.

But me, I booked the first commercial I went on, which was for Kix Cereal. My mom says I was the kid who just booked everything. I did so many commercials, and then people were like, ‘Why don't you audition for a movie?’ I auditioned for 'Bonfire of the Vanities'. I was Tom Hanks and Kim Cattrall's daughter. I was maybe eight.

[Going back to the present] Your character is an avatar for [Director Alex] Garland. How did Alex approach you about the role? What were your key impressions of the story when he first pitched it to you?

I was gripped by the script. I had never read anything or done anything like this before. I was a fan of Alex's, and I knew whatever he was going to do was going to be something, whether it be good or bad.

Do you think some people are [going to be] pissed by it?

If they are, that's their own stuff being reflected watching the movie. Everyone who watches a movie—you always put your own projections on it. But it really isn't a partisan movie. It's not about right and left. It's not at all about that. It's really like a love letter to photojournalists.

Is it set in modern day or in the near future?

It feels like it's in the future, but it’s not futuristic. Cell phones don't work in the film anymore.

Oh, that's good. Did playing a journalist shed any light on some of the challenges that journalism has faced in recent years?

There are two things I watched that were disturbing but also showed you what it's like to really be on the ground and how these people sacrifice their lives. The first was this Marie Colvin documentary called 'Under the Wire'. It's so disturbing, Sofia. It's really horrendous to watch. I was like, ‘Okay, this is what [Dunst’s character] Lee has seen and been through’. I don't know how they do it. I really don't know how they do it. But I also understand that then you come home, and normal life probably feels very surreal and fake.

I can't imagine. That adjustment. You must also get hooked on the thrill of living in such an intense way.

Yeah. I don't know how like a Lynsey Addario does it.

Did you ever see the [1985 Soviet anti-war movie] 'Come and See'? That was another movie I watched. It's about this young boy and the loss of innocence as he becomes part of a war. It’s also a very real depiction in a film of what [war] does to a person.

Oh wow. I'm sure it's hard to express—to show that.

Yeah. On a girlier note, 'Come and See' was a reference. The girl in the beginning [of the film] wears this green satin dress, and Cailee and I have a scene in a dress shop in our film. I was like, ‘Let's make it a green dress as a nod to 'Come and See’.

Oh cool. What do you want people to take away from the film? I feel like that’s always hard to answer.

This is a movie that you want to sit and talk about after. It's a real conversation starter. It jolts you. I honestly haven't felt this way leaving a movie, and I was in the movie. Jesse and I saw it together, and [afterwards], we were just standing around, not really knowing what to do with ourselves. Because it gives you a weird energy shake. A buzz in your body.

Wow.

It's a very immersive film. It's nice that it feels like a big movie, but it's also very intimate and about humanity, and it's not, you know, just a loud, popping war movie. It appears that way, but it also sneaks in a real message. It’s a beautiful love letter to photojournalists and journalism.

I love the idea that you can do something that's exciting and action, but also artful and thoughtful.

Yeah. It feels that way. And it feels like you don't see that together very often.

What gets you excited or hopeful about the future?

Excited or hopeful? I don't know. I don't really think about the future [laugh]. When I think about potential future things, it's basically like, are Jesse and I gonna move to Austin and live there instead of LA? Those are my future worries or concerns. Like, oh, I'd have to move my mom to Austin. Those are the things I think about. I'm not really projecting career stuff or roles. One day I'd like to direct, maybe when the kids are way older. I feel like they're real mama's boys.

You'd be so good at that [directing]. I want to see you do that. But it goes so fast. So it's good that you can enjoy this time with them. You have time. You'll be good. I'm excited to see you get to do more challenging roles.

Yes. I feel like this is actually a good new time in my life. Like turning 41, I'm like, ‘Okay. I think I'll get better roles now.’ More complicated things, I don't know. But also, yeah, I don't know. We'll see what happens after Civil War comes out, but I obviously want us to work together again.

I know. It'd be fun just to... because I get bogged down with all the production stuff. It'd be fun just to make something in your house with a simple story and just focused on performance.

Yeah. I would love to do that. I would like to do something experimental like that.

It could be super homemade, so there's no pressure on it. I feel like we could just make a movie in a weekend.

Okay, finally, what draws you to a director or a project?

Usually, their past work. But I've also worked with a lot of first-time female directors. It's just gravitating to someone who wants to do something different than the rest. People who have a very distinct point of view. I like people who swing for the fences, take big risks, don't care about what other people think, and make films for themselves. Then that usually reflects in other people liking it because it feels so individual.

They take risks. That's a good answer to that.

Thanks. [laughs]

Aw, wait, can I call you right back and, um, we can gossip for a second?

Yes. Yes. [laughs]

I'll FaceTime you. Okay. Call you soon.

HAIR: DANILO DIXON AT THE WALL GROUP. MAKE-UP: KATE LEE AT THE WALL GROUP. MANICURIST: NATALIE MINERVA AT FORWARD ARTISTS. PROP STYLIST: ROBERT DORAN AT FRANK REPS. PRODUCTION: THUY TRAN AND GRETA WESTCOTT AT 2B MANAGEMENT. PRODUCTION ON SET: DIN MORRIS AT VIEWFINDERS. PHOTOGRAPHY ASSISTANTS: KHALILAH PIANTA AND PAULA ANDREA. DIGITAL TECHNICIAN: JAMES WEIR. FASHION ASSISTANT: JORDAN GROSS. SHOT ON LOCATION AT THE GEORGIAN, SANTA MONICA.