OLIVIA GAGAN: Tell me what you were like when you were little—really little—as early as you remember.

DAMSEL ELYSIUM: Oh gosh, I was a very strange kid [laughs]. Very much in my own world. My imagination was very, very wild. Sometimes dangerous, actually—I almost got me and my friend in trouble. I was imaginative, dreaming big worlds. I was interested in creating stories and performances. I'd get my dolls out and act out performances, like, “mum, dad, you have to watch this.”

I grew up in north London, and I would go and see my dad in east London every weekend. Worlds for me were anything I imagined. I remember making a short film with my My Little Ponies about World War II. I filmed it on my mum's iPod; it was an evacuation story, and then they were on a train. I loved it. [laughs]. So, I've always wanted to create stories in some way. I was always writing. With music, that started around when I was five or six. Six, I started on violin.

How did the violin come into your world? Was it a gift? Was it hanging around the house?

DAMSEL: My mum was a pianist, so there was always a piano in the house. I grew up with music in the house, but I chose to do violin. My mum says I was absolutely obsessed with sticks. I’d go to a park, collect sticks, and bring them home. My mum couldn't work it out. Like, why? I was obsessed with sticks. When we watched the BBC Proms, I would be this close to the TV, just watching the bows. I was like, “I am obsessed. I love them.” I said, ‘mum, I wanna play violin.’ My granddad put money towards my first violin, and then I started taking lessons from there.

I picked it up quickly. Apparently, I didn't have a squeaking phase, which most kids do. I even skipped a couple of grades because I was doing really well. But then it gets pretty horrible in the classical world. It slowly fell apart there. But as a kid, I was infatuated with everything that I saw and touched and heard. I was a very lonely kid as well. I didn't have many friends, but I was actually okay with that in primary school. I was in the gardens at school, just doing my thing, playing with spiders and snails.

I think if you've got a really rich internal world, that can sustain you, right? You can almost tap out of whatever room you're in right now and retreat, hide, or go explore in that other world.

DAMSEL: For sure. Yeah.

How about you, Polina? What were you doing as a really young girl?

POLINA OSIPOVA: In some parts, it was very similar to you, Damsel, making little worlds. But I think every kid creates their own world and lives in it.

DAMSEL: I think so. But I feel like mine, maybe the same for you, was at a level where I wasn't able to tell [it apart from] reality.

POLINA: I was always making something with my hands, every day. Things like little dolls. And because they were difficult times, each woman in my family made a lot of their clothes for themselves, and decorations for the home. We weren’t able to just go and buy something. It forced every woman to make with her hands.

I grew up in two places. A village where my grandparents live and a small town—actually, I say it's a small town, but it’s not for Russia. Here [in the UK], it’s big; it's like the size of Manchester. I was very depressed. My school was far away from my home, and after school, which took me 40 minutes to get home from, I went to gymnastics and after that to art school. I didn’t have much time to make friends.

It sounds regimented. You have to be here at this time and there at that time.

DAMSEL: I was very much the same; I'd have to do after-school club. I grew up with a single mum, so she'd leave me at after-school club. I’d get every material I could get my hands on, and I wouldn't wanna leave. She'd pick me up and be like, ‘come on, we gotta go home?’. And all the other kids were like, ‘Mum's here!’ I'd be like, ‘no. This is my studio!’

Would you describe your parents as creative, Polina?

POLINA: No. It was a difficult time. We just worked. As kids, we’d just hang out on the street.

Were there music or artists, TV shows, or films that you were obsessed with as a child that you recognise now as an influence on your work?

DAMSEL: Studio Ghibli. My dad loved Japanese culture and anime, so I was introduced to Studio Ghibli [around] age four. I remember watching 'Spirited Away' as a kid and finding it absolutely wild. I was obsessed with a lot of things. I can't even pinpoint anything. I was obsessed with witches at one point and horses. I think that's a very common one. I'd have interests like other girls had, but mine would always amalgamate into something bizarre. You know how everyone loves fairies, and kids are obsessed with the tooth fairy? I was like, I must track them down [laughs].

Is that what you mean when you said sometimes your imagination got you into potential danger or trouble?

DAMSEL: Yeah. I remember a time when I was so in my imagination that I thought something was real. I drew a treasure map and said to my friend, ‘this is gonna lead us to treasure. We've got to leave now; leave the house.’ We were so young—about eight. It was late at night in North London. We snuck out the house, and I was like, ‘come on, we've gotta follow this map.’ Thank God, she was like, ‘no, I'm scared. Let's go back.’ But I believed very deeply in what I was imagining.

POLINA: I have a similar story about really believing in your imagination. When I was four or five years old, I was playing with girls in a school garden. They were pretending to cook with leaves and flowers and pretending to eat. But I actually cooked mushrooms I’d found. I ate and I ate, and I was in hospital for several days. It was a big scandal because the children weren’t supposed to go near the mushrooms. But it was because I believed what I was making was real.

I think most children are incredibly creative, and they're good at make believe, and then, for some reason, it gets knocked out of them. Or they lose their belief and their confidence. Holding on to that ability to imagine and create worlds—that's the goal—to make it to adulthood and still have that. Were there ever periods in your childhood or your teenage years where you weren't making or creating?

POLINA: No. I've always been making something. It’s like meditation for me.

DAMSEL: Me too.

The stuff you made when you were younger—are there any similarities to your work today? Are there things that look the same as your work now? Motifs or ideas that keep coming up?

POLINA: I think all my works are very separate, and if you put them together, it doesn’t make sense. It’s all different. Usually, artists have their own, very recognisable artistic style. I don't think I have that.

DAMSEL: I don't think so; I can always tell a Polina piece. I think all artists are like this. My mum says exactly the same thing. She paints, and she was saying to me, “I need to make a series.” And I'm looking at her work, and I'm like, “that's a series, mum. That's a style.” [laughs]. But I feel the same. When I look at my work, I feel like there's no consistency. So, I get what Polina feels. But I do think you have a style, Polina.

I wonder if it's because you're so close to it. You're in your work; your work is you. Maybe in 50 years you could look and be like, ‘oh, okay, there were themes’ but when I think of your work, Polina, I think of hearts. As in the physical, anatomical heart.

POLINA: I think of women’s bodies, transformation, and mystery, but not through the western view or gaze. Archives, photos, and family secrets. Maybe female power. I made a corset, and for me, it had a warrior woman vibe. In terms of influences, Soviet cartoons for kids, which have these very beautiful and very interesting storylines. My mum wouldn’t let me watch them.

DAMSEL: Polina showed me a few, and I'm like, no wonder. It's so imaginative. It's almost like they're not for children.

POLINA: Cartoons in Russia are often made both for adults and for children. We have wolves, rabbits, and fish smoking cigarettes [laughs], and they’re usually 20 minutes long. [Polina pulls out her phone to find the cartoons online.] Ah, I’ve found my favourite. It's about, like, space and jewellery... I don’t know how to explain.

DAMSEL: Yeah, I like that one. [laughs]

So those cartoons gave your brain ideas. [Polina shows Olivia the cartoon.] Oh, wow. Yeah.

POLINA: Yes, because they were drawn very well by hand. They used specific colours, not just yellow. How can I explain?

DAMSEL: From what I've seen, it is very artist-led. Yeah. Rather than just being about entertaining a child. It's also about the beauty of that world.

POLINA: A lot of them are based on myths and Indigenous fairy tales. Mermaids, frozen girls, snow queens...

This is a question for both of you. How old were you when you started thinking maybe this could be my life? Making things, being a creator, or being an artist?

DAMSEL: Even though both my mum and my dad were very, very creative, always using their hands, always teaching me to do things with my hands, my mum wanted me to do academia. I think there was kind of a stigma around artists making money.

POLINA: My mother was against it too, because she thought no one could earn money from being an artist.

DAMSEL: I wouldn't say my mum was against it; because of her experiences, she was just like, ‘I don't want you to have to suffer’. My mum was trying to push me down the music path of getting really good at the violin. With that, you can teach, and you can be a virtuoso. And I was really good at the violin. But I also wanted to be an astrophysicist. I honestly had too many interests. I did end up doing really well in school in all my subjects, but I was always drawn to art. Then I went into film because I did acting as a kid as well. Then I realised I wanted to draw everything in. Music, art, writing.

It makes sense that you're multidisciplinary now, then.

DAMSEL: Yeah, because I ended up not being able to choose one. [laughs]

POLINA: I've always been sure. Because I haven't anything else I can do.

Tell me about how you came into each other's orbits. Do you remember how you met?

POLINA: I remember. Do you?

DAMSEL: Yes. I found Polina on Instagram and saw her work, and I was just like, what? I was completely infatuated.

POLINA: I'm blushing. [laughs]

DAMSEL: Genuinely, I was just like, ‘who is this?’ I felt our worlds were already similar just by seeing what you were creating. How did we first talk? I think I just responded to your Instagram story once.

POLINA: I responded to your story. I started following Damsel, looking at what she was doing for her art, her style, and everything. I don’t know if we had already started texting each other or not, but I felt this energy, you know.

DAMSEL: I'm sure I messaged you first. I remember you being like, ‘I'm sorry, my English isn’t great’. And then you wrote me this big paragraph, and I already kind of felt that energy too.

POLINA: I used Google Translate [laughs]. I couldn't speak English.

DAMSEL: I could tell it was translated. But I still could feel that, even later on, when we first met, we didn't use a lot of words to communicate. We were just kind of looking at each other. It was a bit telepathic. You'd show me a picture, or I'd show you something, and I’d feel like we understood what the other was trying to say.

POLINA: You owe me an apology. I moved to this country for you!

DAMSEL: No! [laugh]. Why, don't you like it?

POLINA: Because I have to eat British food! I'm joking, but it’s true. I wanted to travel for a month in the UK, and I just moved into Damsel’s house after our second meeting.

DAMSEL: [laughing] I initiated it. The very first time we met in person was at Polina’s first exhibition in London. I went to the opening, but Polina wasn't there because of a visa issue. So, someone put you on FaceTime to speak to me. Then I went again a couple of days afterwards, just so we could actually meet. We were really awkward. We were just so shy. [laughs]. But I got the energy that we would be friends.

Then, the second time Polina wanted to visit the UK, I was like, ‘do you wanna just stay at mine?’ She was here for three weeks. And that's how we bonded—every evening we were cooking, talking, and showing each other our inspirations.

POLINA: I still couldn't talk properly.

DAMSEL: But somehow it just worked.

POLINA: It was very funny.

DAMSEL: It did feel telepathic.

POLINA: Natural.

DAMSEL: The conversation wasn’t perfect, but I knew what you meant. I would show you things, and you just understood. I'm neurodivergent, and I struggle with communication. Well, I apparently struggle with communication; I think it's just an alternative way of communicating... Anyway, we just clicked very quickly. There was no tension. It just made sense.

You’d only been in my house for a week, and we were saying, “I feel like I've known you for years.” [laughs]. It was like a romantic meeting. I felt like I'd known you for so long, like you were my childhood friend.

POLINA: Me too.

Do you think it's about understanding each other as artists or having similar personalities?

POLINA: We have different personalities, but I feel a lot of respect for you and your mindset. And, of course, it's about your artistic world.

DAMSEL: When you look at someone's art, you learn so much about them. Even though I knew you'd lived a completely different life, I could connect to it in a strange way.

It feels like you're both really invested in heritage and the past in your art. Damsel, I was listening to your EP on the way here, and it felt weird listening to it on the train because it sounded like music that has been dredged up from centuries ago. And Polina, your work keeps these centuries-old cultures and traditions alive. You're both young, but there's something old soul about you both.

DAMSEL: We did a lot of bonding over this, over our heritage and our histories. You teach me so much.

POLINA: You teach me so much.

DAMSEL: Even for example, the Soviet animations, I was just like, ‘what is this? This is great.’ But I’ve learned so much about history, too.

POLINA: I’ve learned so much about Black history. I didn't know anything about it before.

Do you think you've changed each other?

DAMSEL: Definitely. You could even ask my mum this. I was showing my mum Polina’s Instagram account before we’d ever met. I was like, ‘look at this girl. She is so cool. I wanna be like her. She's so cool.’ I was 18 or 19. Even then, your world was an influence on me. Now that I've met you and you're my friend, it's different. It’s not me watching someone online. I understand now why I was so drawn to Polina’s online presence, because I now know we think very similarly. So, it kind of makes sense that I was drawn to your world. I was recognising something of myself in your work.

POLINA: For me, you’ve influenced my artistic world. I’ve become more structured. I'm very inspired by how you make mood boards and how you read everything and do everything step by step. It’s cool because I'd never been like that, but I started to work similarly and have a deeper sense of the details. As a human, in relationships, I’ve become deeper too. You also influence my style!

[laughing] You’re both wearing the same outfit today.

DAMSEL: Style-wise, we connect a lot. We talk a lot about fashion together. That's been one of our friendship foundations.

As in influences, images, silhouettes, or eras?

DAMSEL: All of it. Designers that we both love.

POLINA: I think it's because, as personalities, we’re... how I can translate it from Russian, what Damsel looks like during her performances, it's part of her art. It's very important. And clothes are also part of my art.

DAMSEL: I think because our worlds are so similar, we end up being drawn to very similar designers.

POLINA: You’ve influenced me a lot. I've always been interested in vintage, but I've never been interested in brands or fashion.

It must be nice to have someone to go to shows with.

DAMSEL: Yeah, it is. It's fun. [laughs]

Romantic love is held up as the best kind of love, or way to be in relationship with somebody. And in our culture and society, we don't celebrate or support friendship. How important is your friendship? It’s a classic artist thing, isn't it, growing up a somewhat lonely child with a big imagination? But now I guess you're not lonely because you've got this friendship and this incredible collaboration.

DAMSEL: It's not so lonely anymore. Polina, I could show you a mood board, and you'll already know what it is I’m getting at. I don't even have to describe it, and you get it, you know? It's taught me a lot about how important friendship is. Artwork aside, as a friend, you have saved me many times.

POLINA: I don’t know how I got through the past two years without you.

DAMSEL: It's so funny. I feel like everything you said, you've given to me too. Last year I went through a horrible breakup, and Polina was there through thick and thin. Other times as well, like when I get depressed or things happen in our lives, Polina is the first person I talk to about it. It’s so important to have that. I think we also understand that it will feed our art as well.

When you respect someone [as a friend], you're gonna see them as a person. Rather than when you look at celebrities or other artists, you glorify them and hold them to this impossible standard. It’s the same for romantic relationships as well. But with a friendship, you’re always dealing with reality. Yes, there’s this person's incredible artistry, skills, and talent. But there’s also the days when they're low and going through stuff. It's a very real and very honest thing.

POLINA: I also think that people used to live closer to or with their family, and that would provide friendship and community, like 25 family members in a house. Now, for myself, I’ve built relationships with you and with my friends. It’s like we’re a huge family.

DAMSEL: That’s a really good point. I'm the same, treating my friends like family. Maybe because my family was dysfunctional and because I didn't have friends growing up, you seek out people that are like you to have that deep connection with and to build that familial kinship.

So, you both live here now, very close to each other. What was behind your decision to move here, Polina?

DAMSEL: You needed to get to somewhere as soon as possible, basically. And I was like, ‘London's not a good idea. It's expensive.’ That was one thing that my ex got right: escaping London and moving here to a bigger place by the sea.

Do you see your lives remaining here for a while?

DAMSEL: We’ve been talking for weeks and weeks [about this]. I've always wanted to skip the UK. Polina, I don't know how you feel, but we have been talking about what country we would go to [laugh] and where's safe for me as a Black person but also good for us as artists, and then we end up always being like, I guess we just have to stay. [both laugh]

Were there any places on the shortlist?

DAMSEL: For a time, it was Finland. I recently did some work there, but that's off the list because the work that I did for this brand brought some nationalistic Finnish folk, and I was like, oh God. The response was pretty rough. So, I dunno if I can show my face in Finland again.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

DAMSEL: It is what it is. People unable to accept change, basically.

So, you'd admired each other from afar online. You met, and you became friends. When did the collaboration, the co-making, or the supporting each other's work start?

DAMSEL: Now. I feel like we haven't officially collaborated yet. I'm like, ‘Polina, I've got this thing. Do you wanna be part of it? It's only now that we are doing a project. Before, for something like a show, I had a vision of what the show was going to be. I had other visual collaborators as well. I was curating artists. We designed a tree together for my show and made it in a week. It was so stressful. We designed this tree, and Polina also made a heart for it that was interactive. So, when I was on stage, I had this silver dagger that was made by another artist. I cut this heart open, and it pours out honey to represent tree sap. During the performance, I got covered in honey.

POLINA: I am so sorry about that. I should have been more responsible. I should have thought about this.

DAMSEL: No, it wasn’t your fault! We didn’t do a dress rehearsal. As I was on stage, I was like, ‘oh, no.’ [laughs]. The dress I was wearing was made by someone as well, so I didn't wanna get it covered in honey. After the show, my hands and the piano keys were all covered in honey, and my violin was all sticky. [laughs]

POLINA: It was so insane. When I saw it happening, I was just like, ‘arggghhh’!

DAMSEL: I was trying to play it cool, like, ‘this is not happening.’ But we have done things like that, where it's been a sculpture or a supporting piece of art. Polina made a flower skirt quickly the day before my show back when you were living with me. That was the first-ever collaboration. But now, we wanna try and basically merge our worlds and our interests together.

POLINA: We’ve just started to plan and share ideas. It’s a collaboration between music and visual things, based on kinetic mechanisms.

DAMSEL: The idea started to develop when we were doing the Violet shoot. We made props that were representations of our worlds and how similar they are, but also how different. So, the main one, I call it the love harp. It’s two wooden panels in the shape of a heart, but they go around us, and then they connect with strings, and you can play it together. We want to make it an official project, and I think it will continue as well. It won’t be just one project. It will have many lifespans.

If someone had never seen Polina’s work before and you had to describe it or explain it to them, how would you do it?

DAMSEL: Oh wow. [To Polina] I would say it's wearable sculpture that's influenced by your heritage and has this otherworldly layer to it. You use a lot of visual messaging to create another reality out of your inspirations, like your heritage. Modern mysticism. Like a modern mythology.

How would you describe Damsel’s art, Polina?

POLINA: Oh, it's my first time describing your work, and I want to use beautiful words [laughs]. A portal into the mysterious. Mythological stories. Damsel brings you into a mythological, esoteric, and mysterious world of your own imagination. A world to explore in, a portal within reality.

HAIR: SHARON ROBINSON. MAKE-UP: MARIA COMPARETTO. PRODUCTION: EMILY PRICE AT RAW PRODUCTIONS. FLORIST: MILENA AT STEMS WILDER. PHOTOGRAPHY ASSISTANTS: MARK ARRIGO AND LUKE STULINSKI. FASHION ASSISTANT: TASHIA SULEYMAN.